The elders in our congregation harbored a sister and her three children, who was wanted by police.
You do realize this is a crime? Harboring a kidnapper?
Yes, the elders in our congregation committed a crime by knowing she was a fugitive, and not reporter her. My grandparents were not aware of her status as a fugitive when they assisted her, only that she ran away from an abusive husband. But the elders were very aware.
The elders in the congregation believed her, went to the police, and the police then questioned neighborhood children who suddenly remembered they were molested too
Your story doesn't quite ring true. I get the feeling you are leaving out some rather large chunks of the story. Children don't just "suddenly remember" being sexually assaulted. You imply the children are lying. What evidence do you have of this? How did the police know which child to interview? Did they go door to door asking random people?
You don't have to believe my story anymore than I have to believe any other story. I don't have any "evidence" anymore than any other member of this message board has "evidence" of their own experiences. All you have is my perspective. That said, the police did interview neighborhood children in their investigation, because the elders had suggested they do so. My grandmother had neighborhood girls over for baking cookies, for which the elders had previously rebuked her.
The jury, although two jurors actually fell asleep during the trial, believed the stories, failed to recognize the disturbing contradictions in the testimony (for instance, these two girls were sisters and they both had the exact same story: that each was molested while her sister was in the other room, she called for help and they both ran away and never came back), and returned a guilty verdict.
So the only evidence against your grandfather was the word of two girls? No other evidence was presented? How old were the girls?
Am I to understand that both girls claimed to have been assaulted by your grandfather? If so, what is inconsistent about one girl being in one room and the other girl being in another room? It could be possible that they were assaulted separately.
I believe the girls were 9 and 10 at the time. The inconsistency with the story is that if Girl A says, "I was in the room alone with Man, and Man touched me inappropriately. I screamed for my sister, we ran out of the house, and we never went back to Man's house again." Then Girl B (the sister of Girl A) can't also have the exact same story, saying she was touched, she screamed for her sister, they left and never came back. Yes, it would be possible for them to be assaulted separately, however, that was not their testimony. I know, because I have the trial transcripts.
Any criminal attorney will tell you, if the charge is sexual abuse, there's almost always going to be a conviction regardless of the quality of the testimony/evidence
This is the biggest load of waffle I've ever heard. So you feel that all a child has to do is scream "RAPE" and the poor innocent guy is automatically convicted? I'm sorry but that is the most ignorant, stupidly sweeping statement I've heard in some time.
No, not all a child has to do is scream rape. It has to at least sound credible to the prosecution. But no physical evidence, only testimony from the alleged victim, is necessary for a conviction. I am not talking about rape; with rape there is likely to be physical evidence. But with molestation there is rarely evidence. And the rate of conviction in molestation cases is still extraordinarily high.
I've heard many times about how children never lie about sexual abuse, but it's been proven over and over again that isn't the case.
OH well as long as it's been proven then.
Has it happened where a child lied? Yes of course. Has a false accusation ever been made? Yes of course. But there is quite a lot more to convicting a sexual predator than just a child's word.
No, actually there isn't in most cases. Again, see above. (I also have experience in this topic, not based on my family experiences but in legal studies.)
Children do lie about sexual abuse
Some of us, can only wish we were lying. I'd much rather be a liar than live with the memories of people who raped me as a child and who got away with it. Including my father, who is still a ministerial servant in good standing.
I'm not saying you, or anyone else on this board, is a liar. I'm not saying ALL children, or MOST children, or even MANY children lie about sexual abuse. But it does happen nonetheless. Not EVERY child who says he or she has been abused, is telling the truth.
The McMartin preschool case is the most notorious example of this. Overzealous social workers/police/prosecutors can plant ideas in children's minds, especially very young children, and the result is they even start believing it actually happened. And sometimes it becomes a children's way of "punishing" an adult who has upset the child in some other way, as children are often told repeatedly that "if someone ever touches you... tell us and we'll make sure they go to jail."
And because of one instance you're willing to brand every child with the same brush? And I disagree with you. The probability of accuracy generally is in direct proportion to how young the child is. Consider how many 5 year olds can describe oral sex, or the taste of semen versus how many 10 year olds, or 15 year olds.
Do you realize how difficult it is to step forward with the accusation of abuse? It is terribly frightening. Additionally the act of sexual abuse is very shaming. A victim has their body used against their will.
And you think by simply teaching a child to tell an adult if they are touched is going to cause that child to run to the police and scream "RAPE" just because Daddy didn't buy them an Xbox? Are you aware of how sweeping your statements are?
Again, I'm not "branding every child with the same brush," and had you read the post objectively you can see that isn't what I am saying. You read my post already on the defensive that I must be personally attacking you and every other child that has made an accusation of rape or molestation. I am not. What I am attacking is the assertion that EVERY child (or more likely, the parent/adult that has encouraged him/her to do so) who makes an allegation is telling the truth. Sometimes it isn't the truth at all.
No, I don't know how difficult it is to step forward with an accusation of abuse. I only know what my mother has told me. She was raped by her own father as a child, and the police did not prosecute her father. I only know what a friend of mine who was molested by a family friend has told me. I have never experienced that crime myself. I'm sorry you have. But that doesn't mean that because it happened to you, that it happened to everyone else who says it did, and that innocent people don't suffer because of false accusations.
No, I don't think that telling a child to tell an adult if they are touched automatically makes them run to the police. However, when a child has been emotionally abused/brainwashed and used as a weapon against other adults, then yes, that behavior can certainly be taught to children.
It isn't the place of the elders to determine when a crime should be reported or not. If they have a knowledge of a crime, or accusation has been made of a crime, it should be reported no matter what. They should never make the determination of whether an accusation or charge has merit themselves and not report it.
At last we can agree on something.
Everyone is entitled to a fair trial (a fair one, where the jury stays awake for it... although my legal training has taught me you can't regulate whether a jury pays attention or not),
Why didn't your grandfather's attorney speak to the judge when it happened? This is absolutely within the judge's area of authority and he would have taken action, perhaps even dismissing the juror or even the whole jury and ordering a re-trial. I don't know if that would have happeend, but it is the attorney's responsibility to speak up if he sees juror misconduct.
Sorry but I, obviously, vehemently disagree with your "diatribe". I don't know the circumstances surrounding your grandfather but you are way out of bounds to extrapolate your belief of his innocence into statements about child abuse that are, at best, foolish.
Actually, when it comes to juries, there is very little the judge can do to make certain that the jury is actually paying attention to the evidence. Napping jurors happen a lot more than you think, and it is within the judge's broad discretion to ever order a mistrial. A couple napping jurors won't cause a judge to scuttle a trial in most cases. The jurors got a rebuke.
The statements I am asserting about child abuse, i.e. that not EVERY child who says they are abused are actually abused, is not foolish, but rather is substantiated by actual cases. You can deny that if you like, but it's true.
I understand that this is obviously a touchy subject for you, and for others, and I didn't write this post to be disrespectful. I wrote this post to illustrate that the elders arbitrarily report crimes, make decisions that adversely effect other peoples' lives. They have stood by and allowed children to be abused, and also not reported other criminals, such as that sister, who kidnapped her own children and subjected them to her own mental abuse while being quite zealous about supporting the prosecution of my grandfather.
Whether you believe my grandfather molested children or not, whether you believe me or not, I just wanted to share my story, plain and simple. Child molestation hurts more than just the victims. Accusations, true or false, destroy a lot of other innocent bystanders.
